Curse

spray04 · Mar 23, 2011, 06:40 PM // 18:40

As this seems to be the current meta right now, I wanted to give my opinion on the best way to combine these three team builds because I think I see a lot of problems in people's builds when they put it all together.

Discordway Portion:

1. I believe the Discordway build on PvX has some weaknesses. The first is that Signet of Lost Souls, one of the best skills for Necro heroes, is nowhere to be found. I think all 3 Necro heroes should have this skill in place of the 2 copies of Flesh of My Flesh and the 1 copy of Recovery currently in the PvX build.

I chose these skills to be replaced for a couple of reasons:
-The Resto Necros should NOT have any rezzes on their bars - you never want your healers to spend 4 seconds rezzing and stop healing because then everyone else drops dead
-Recovery is expensive and not useful when there are multiple copies of Mend Body and Soul to remove conditions

Replacing these skills with 3 copies of SoLS only requires moving Putrid Bile from one Necro to another.

2. Combined with shutdown Mesmers, Shadow of Fear may not be that useful, and it may even cause the shutdown hexes to be triggered less. In its place, I have found that having an additional copy of Shambling Horror (which is a 25s recharge) is very useful and maximizes corpse exploitation.

Spiritway Portion:

1. You need to keep PwK, MBaS and Spirit Light on the SoS Rit. Many people are removing these heals from the SoS because they think they have enough heals with the 2 Resto Necros, who are semi-healers. If you've been to the harder areas, you would know you need these third copies.

2. Splinter Weapon should definitely be the optional skill (PvX says it's optional) to be put on him because it is used on minions even if there are no physicals in the party.

Mesway Portion:

1. Rezzes should go on Mesmers - with their fast casting, they can bring party members back most quickly.

2. Many people have Power Drain on one Mesmer and Drain Enchantment on the other - it is much better to have Power Drain on both. Drain Enchantment is not that useful in this combination anyway because the Disenchantment spirit already removes enchantments.

3. Do not use the Wastrels from the old build on the Panic Mesmer - they use up too much energy. There are better skills to be put in like CoF. You'd rather have the Mesmer casting Panic rather than spamming themselves dry with the Wastrels.

With these in mind, you end up with a build like this; your slot should be standard AP caller with 3 skills left for whatever you see fit from your profession.

Xslash · Mar 23, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I believe you underestimate the power of soul reaping. signet of lost souls is unnecessary.

I've found the most expensive spells and put them on my necros because they cannot run out of energy.

Recovery is there so that your heroes don't waste time casting mend body and soul to remove conditions. You want them to be casting offensive spells as often as possible, only healing when needed.

Also, at the rate you kill stuff, Putrid Bile just does not recharge fast enough. I'd put it on all the necros. You should be killing more than 1 enemy every 12 seconds. I'd hope for something alot faster.

spray04 · Mar 23, 2011, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xslash

I believe you underestimate the power of soul reaping. signet of lost souls is unnecessary.

I've found the most expensive spells and put them on my necros because they cannot run out of energy.

Recovery is there so that your heroes don't waste time casting mend body and soul to remove conditions. You want them to be casting offensive spells as often as possible, only healing when needed.

Also, at the rate you kill stuff, Putrid Bile just does not recharge fast enough. I'd put it on all the necros. You should be killing more than 1 enemy every 12 seconds. I'd hope for something alot faster.

SoLS is useful when they have to spam Discord and Heals, especially when two of them are holding PwK and don't get energy from their weapon sets; it is also a moderate self heal.

That is not a strong enough reason to justify Recovery, which costs 15e.

I would never put more than one copy of a hex on my team when they don't stack; very, very low utility.

Schnellburg · Mar 23, 2011, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I personally drop the minions all together, and drop SoGM for a ST rit. I run a front line, and I haven't really run into any issues doing any VQ's or any Dungeons.

HigherMinion · Mar 23, 2011, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Only thing you did wrong was Res Signet on player bar... Panic is also very optional; better elites for much of PvE. Also, if you've got a condition on your player bar, you can take another copy of Putrid Bile.

SoLS is good for the heal, as well as keeping the blue bar up in longer battles. I never run a necro hero bar without it.

spray04 · Mar 23, 2011, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Only thing you did wrong was Res Signet on player bar... Panic is also very optional; better elites for much of PvE. Also, if you've got a condition on your player bar, you can take another copy of Putrid Bile.

SoLS is good for the heal, as well as keeping the blue bar up in longer battles. I never run a necro hero bar without it.

It's there because only 2 DPS is not enough rezzing for a team. Whether Panic is optional or not goes out the window cuz we're discussing this combo which includes Mesway.

Xslash · Mar 23, 2011, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

SoLS is useful when they have to spam Discord and Heals, especially when two of them are holding PwK and don't get energy from their weapon sets; it is also a moderate self heal.

That is not a strong enough reason to justify Recovery, which costs 15e.

I would never put more than one copy of a hex on my team when they don't stack; very, very low utility.

The AI doesnt cast hexes on someone who has the same hex.

Soul reaping gives like 25 energy every 15 seconds, thats equivalent to more than an extra 6 pips of regen. You cannot run out of energy. You can put Recuperation, Recovery, Life all on one necro and he still will not run out of energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

SoLS is good for the heal, as well as keeping the blue bar up in longer battles. I never run a necro hero bar without it.

The problem is not the energy issue, the problem is the 'longer battles'. Fix that with more damage, less utility, less heals, less whatever, just more damage.

Kill stuff before it kills you.

HigherMinion · Mar 23, 2011, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

It's there because only 2 DPS is not enough rezzing for a team. Whether Panic is optional or not goes out the window cuz we're discussing this combo which includes Mesway.

If those two mesmer midline die you pretty much deserve to wipe and try again. Generally this option is fine if vanquishing or dungeoning.

Haven't looked at "mesway" by itself, but Panic is over-rated. Keystone Signet might be better, and actually deal better damage. Alternatively... Shared Burden/Stolen Speed.

spray04 · Mar 23, 2011, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xslash

The AI doesnt cast hexes on someone who has the same hex.

Well, another copy of Putrid Bile can very well replace a SoLS. I have a bigger problem with FoMF on Resto Necros.

Xslash · Mar 23, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Haven't looked at "mesway" by itself, but Panic is over-rated. Keystone Signet might be better, and actually deal better damage. Alternatively... Shared Burden/Stolen Speed.

Have you seen Panic in action?

half my screen is filled with '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!'

Its so strong that it basically negates more damage than a prot healer.

HigherMinion · Mar 23, 2011, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xslash

Have you seen Panic in action?

half my screen is filled with '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!' '!!'

Its so strong that it basically negates more damage than a prot healer.

You do realise that Panic triggers on auto-attacks and skills, that don't harm the party, too? The grammar spam is entertaining but there are definitely better elites to fill that Dom mes.

Xslash · Mar 23, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

You do realise that Panic triggers on auto-attacks and skills, that don't harm the party, too? The grammar spam is entertaining but there are definitely better elites to fill that Dom mes.

attacking isnt damage?
if panic lands on a ball of enemies, that essentially means they are taking turns doing something to you. If that isnt damage mitigation, i dunno what is.

stolen speed effect does nothing with the teambuild. you dont cast spirits targeting the enemies, the mesmers cast mad fast already, and so basically the only spell you using is discord. 1/2 second instead of 1 second cast time doesnt decrease its usefully, u can still only cast it once every 2 seconds.

the spells you offered as a replacement for panic are not as useful.
double cast time is not as effective as interrupting everything at will.

Outerworld · Mar 23, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

You do realise that Panic triggers on auto-attacks and skills, that don't harm the party, too? The grammar spam is entertaining but there are definitely better elites to fill that Dom mes.

It doesn't trigger on auto-attacks, however those "!!!!!!!!!" don't actually mean a skill was interupted either.

jensyea · Mar 23, 2011, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

Well, another copy of Putrid Bile can very well replace a SoLS. I have a bigger problem with FoMF on Resto Necros.

Was gonna post this but saw you already did. Really, just take death pact.

spray04 · Mar 23, 2011, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jensyea

Was gonna post this but saw you already did. Really, just take death pact.

That's also not the point; the point was no rezzes should be on healers

Xander The Survivor · Mar 23, 2011, 09:25 PM // 21:25

This is what i run atm, ofc you need Mercenary Heroes.
I have done alot of Vq, HM Dungeons and Mission, I have not found a place wher it dont work.

spray04 · Mar 23, 2011, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xander The Survivor

This is what i run atm, ofc you need Mercenary Heroes.
I have done alot of Vq, HM Dungeons and Mission, I have not found a place wher it dont work.

And look what happens in the thread where I just made a point about not putting rezzes on healers.

GrimmNinja · Mar 23, 2011, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I prefer keystone mesmer in moist cases just cause gwen rupts like heel, does great dmg and uses like 0 energy, with the exception of symbolic clerity or whatever it is called. I also like to go /mo and add signet of devotion for a small heal boost every now and agin

. But for things like balled. Up enemies for example WiK or DoA, micro'd panic>keystone

Cors Seel · Mar 23, 2011, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Heroes don't know how to use Painful Bond. Ancestor's Rage would be better because they do know how to use this skill. It's awesome dmg for 5e when enemies start chasing your backline. Even if your hero doesn't use this skill that much, it's still worth it.

About the Ineptitude bar, i see this bar almost everywhere but i find it's kinda energy intensive. Main reason for this is Clumsiness which he spams like a maniac. I Changed Ineptitude by Shared Burden. I don't know where i read it but i'm gonna quote someone "Shared Burden turns HM mobs into NM mobs"

Panic, Mistrust, CoF, Sharden Burden, Power Drain (x2) and Arcane Conundrum provide massive caster shut down while Enfeebling Blood, Shared Burden, Clumsiness, Signet of Clumsiness and Wandering Eye will still provide crazy physical shutdown. U can add Shadow of Fear as well if u find a spot because Shadow of Fear and Shared Burden stack.

Sometimes these 2 mesmers pwn mobs so hard (and fast) that i feel like healers are getting useless...

Lortext · Mar 23, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Painful bond is an AOE hex that nearly doubles spirit damage targeting that foe. Heroes drop it on whoever they want and spirits target whatever they want. I never really have a problem with this but you can always micro it on targets that are the focus of spirits. The energy cost sucks but it can be offset with Spirit Siphon which my Rits never leave home without.